There is also Guillermo Gomez-Pena and the Border Arts Workshop. Right now, Rubén Ortiz Torres, a self described Chilango/Chicano, uses the same forms of border/tourist art to create paintings of Bart Sanchez rather than Bart Simpson. He is one of the foremost artists investigating notions of pop and Mexican American relations. Speaking of fame, do you have any comments about the state of "fame" in Mexico today? Miki I believe that the idea of fame in Mexico is somewhat different that in the US. First of all, Mexico does not have the film industry and accompanying PR machines that Hollywood provides for US fodder.

Bart Sanchez by Ruben Ortiz Torres.

In Mexico, fame can constitute a politician, writer, poet, artist, rebel, soap opera star, and drug dealer - not just actors/actresses and presidents.

How pervasive is the image of Sub-Commandante Marcos in Mexico? Has he become fodder for pop art on any level at all?

Miki You know, Mexico is still a country influenced by the idea of caste systems. People are still relegated to certain social levels depending on race, class, family lineage, what part of the country they are from, etc. So, while on the one hand there are many, many people who support Marcos there are still many others who side with wealthy landowners. I think the reason Sub-Comandante Marcos is such a part of the popular visual culture is because his mass appeal is directed at the dispossessed who are often illiterate. Thus, the proliferation of images-utilizing simple graphic posters and flyers-transforms this man into a larger-than-life figure. Also, his popularity is supported so much more from the outside - Americans and Europeans I think consider Marcos part of the vernacular of pop culture more so than Mexicans because they are one step removed from the realities that he preaches. For Mexicans, this is serious stuff. For the rest of us, we appreciate his ideals. Does that make sense?

Heroes and villains are often the subject of pop art. Unlike Marcos, sometimes these characters aren't real. Who else falls into these categories in Mexico today, fictitious or otherwise?

Miki Yes, I was going to mention that above. Another thing that makes Sub-Comandante Marcos fall so easily into the status of hero are the historical antecedents. Like Emiliano Zapata, Pancho Villa, and Benito Huerta, Marcos is advocating the rights of the "people" or the masses. These heroes all sought the same things - land reform, education, human rights - and Marcos is the post-colonial hero that forces us (and the Mexican government) to realize that the Revolution didn't change anything that much. People are still struggling no matter what Fox or PRI or any government does to thrust Mexico out of the third world and it has to be dealt with before any real progress can occur. In regards to the second part of the question, there have always been fictious characters that represent the Mexican socio-political landscape. I can think of Posada's calaveras or Don Chepito who often satirized the politicians and social problems of his era. Right now, there are the popular heroes are soccer players and lucha libre stars. Also, there are bull fighters, pop stars, and telenovela heroines. This is what makes up contemporary Mexican mass entertainment.

Do artists look to less glamorous forms of popular art for inspiration, such as folk arts and crafts ?

Miki Well I can think of Francis Alys, the Belgian born expat living in Mexico City who works in collaboration with rotulistas or commercial sign painters around the city. Many contemporary Mexican artists are engaged in international debates about the role of the museum, the status of painting, the role of the Internet, etc. But, many of them are also in a process of critique that began in the 50s and 60s of what it means to be a "Mexican." Artists like Silvia Gruner and Miguel Calderón use scatology and humor to examine and shrug off the weight of Mexican art history and re-envision a new trajectory.

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